Throughout history, many stories have featured characters who are depicted as being "too good for this sinful earth" and therefore dying young. Charles Dickens, for instance, wrote many such characters into his stories; and Uncle Tom's Cabin also depicts its most famous characters in this way. Such an idea, of course, has explicitly religious connotations, with the idea being that the character is so pure that they belong in heaven and not on earth. Do such characters still exist in modern, secular media? If so, what are some examples? How can a story that lacks a religious bent portray a character as too good for the world (if indeed it's possible)?
Oh yeah, they exist. A lot of times, they're disabled, which smacks of ableism (or they have cancer, which is not the same thing but is in the neighborhood). A lot of Christian-based movies have these, and what's interesting is that the characters come across as too good for earth even if they ultimately survive (inspiration porn). But sometimes you'll find them in non-religious literature, too. The key is, "too good for this sinful earth" in itself implies the character has some kind of faith or at least a belief in heaven, so there is some overlap. – Stephanie M.4 years ago
This is an interesting topic! I immediately thought of "Clarissa" by Samuel Richardson as one of "too good for this sinful earth" protagonists. I don't think such characters are as popular in modern media anymore because of how people's tastes and social ideals have changed, at least, that is true in most western movies/tv shows. There isn't any purely "good" character anymore and I think we mostly veer towards portraying characters as more human and flawed. But maybe that in itself could be an interesting direction to take for this topic. – Kheya4 years ago
Analyze the relationship between Odysseus and Telemakos of “The Odyssey”. Specifically, look at the characters at their start (Telemakos being more passive, Odysseus being more hot-blooded). How do they develop? How do they influence each other in their development? How is this relevant in driving out 108 suitors from Odysseus’ home, all vying for Penelope’s hand? How does Athena influence both of them?
Cool topic. I missed out on The Odyssey in school because I was in honors/advanced English, and they for some reason thought we "nerds" (hardy har) didn't need to read it. So, I'll look forward to this one. – Stephanie M.5 years ago
There was recently another essay that previously touched on parts of this topic. https://the-artifice.com/odyssey/ – Sean Gadus4 years ago
Bella Swan and Edward Cullen. Catherine and Heathcliff. Lily Evans and Severus Snape. Besides the obvious examples of unhealthy relationships in literature, there are also some that are commonly contested, like Elizabeth Bennett and Mr. Darcy or Jane Eyre and Mr. Rochester. Despite the toxicity of these relationships though, and despite the fact that from a twenty-first century mindset, they could be called manipulative or abusive, people still love them. People still read the stories of these characters and enjoy them.
Do toxic relationships in literature have a particular pull? If so, what is it? What makes a relationship toxic, and are any of these, or others, redeemable? Is the woman always the "victim," or can men be victimized by toxicity as well? Are toxic relationships more "accepted" with white couples (you'll notice none of these examples contain people of color or minorities)? Why is that? What about LGBTQ examples? Discuss.
I feel like it's in large measure of the potential for abusive relationships to function as narcissist's fantasies, even regardless of gender. For example, in a story like Twilight a woman gets to imagine herself being the object of affections of a man who's so infatuated with her he's willing to cater to her every desire (even if he also treats her quite badly). Whereas men get to fantasize about having a weak, passive woman who loves having them in control and being their willing slave. Part of it might also be that some people really are so desperate for a partner that they're willing to do anything for one, no matter how degrading. – Debs5 years ago
I should also add that, if anything, I think toxic relationships are more common in media with LGBT characters than without them, and that a big part of this is that something that anyone could recognize as creepy and awful if a man were doing it to a woman (i.e., rape, kidnapping, etc.), is more likely to be perceived as not that bad when it's a man doing it to another man, or a woman doing it to another woman. – Debs5 years ago
This is a very rich topic. If you plan to write this topic, I suggest reflecting upon subtopics. In my opinion, the meaning of toxic relationship also differ from period to period, so pay attention to that, as well! – Crisia4 years ago
A very interesting topic and at the same time a good question! These relationships are so timeless and have been attractive for generations. In my opinion, to desire someone and being desired by someone is a deep wish and / or a fantasy that has nothing to do with age or gender. – Guinevere4 years ago
Lev Grossman, author of The Magician’s trilogy, has stated that in the series— which is also clear as day for readers— he recreates a version of C.S. Lewis’ world, Narnia. Many readers grew angry, believing that Grossman was not creative enough to create his own world. However, the author expresses (in multiple interviews) that he’s trying to create a grown up version of Narnia, as he himself grew up loving the series.
Additionally, Grossman further expounds that he intended to integrate the magician aspect of the beloved Harry Potter series into his books.
For those who have not read The Magicians, the series circulates around Quentin Coldwater, an eighteen-year-old who discovers magic after finding Brakebills, a school for magicians. Quentin was obsessed with the fantastical Fillory books— Grossman’s version of the Narnia books— and soon learns that Fillory is, in fact, real.
Grossman references and creates allusions to the pop-culture works of Tolkien, George R.R. Martin, Rowling, Lewis and many more throughout the series.
With all of that said, I think a real discussion and comparison of every allusion/reference to Lewis throughout The Magicians trilogy would be interesting in opening up an in-depth conversation. Not only would this help readers see that Grossman is not plagiarizing, but it would display specifically how Grossman took Narnia (and Harry Potter) and made such a captivating grown-up version.
To conclude, I’ll leave with a comment made by the New York Times, “if the Narnia books were like catnip for a certain kind of kid, these books are like crack for a certain kind of adult.”
This would be a very interesting article. However, I don't think all of the books should be compared/contrasted. Maybe just The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, Prince Caspian, and The Dawn Treader, as those already have their own film adaptations. – OkaNaimo08194 years ago
I definitely agree! It would be tedious to do one book alone, and so I welcome any discussion about similarities, parallels, critiques on how it could have been improved in either series, etc. (: Thank you for adding that. – Abie Dee4 years ago
I feel like you could focus on the religious politics as well. CS Lewis, of course, was a Christian writer and wrote many Christian themes into the Narnia series. It could be said, as well, that Harry Potter has some Christian themes, albeit less obvious ones. Yet, judging by Lev Grossman's name he's almost certainly Jewish. It might be really interesting to explore how the different religious backgrounds of the authors impact the stories they tell. – Debs4 years ago
Fan fiction seems to be a bit like Marmite: fans of original fiction either love it or hate it.
When I took my 'first foray' into the realms of fan fiction, I was surprised to encounter a wider range of sub-genres, tropes and terminology than I had realised…
Sequels and prequels to other authors' narratives, along with spin-off texts, new characters and 'non cannon' rewrites can prove contentious–especially when fans feel that the new text undermines or distorts aspects of the original work.
Yet, for some people, it extends the enjoyment gained from the original text and adds dimensions to the fictional universe in question. It can prove satisfying to read (or write) a character's backstory or find out what happens next–even if these events and characters were created by someone else and/or not generally considered to be 'cannon.'
In some cases, prequels, sequels and rewrites by different writers–without the approval or authorisation of the original author-have become published or otherwise firmly established in mainstream culture. Examples include Jean Rhys's 'Wide Sargasso Sea' (a prequel to Charlotte Bronte's 'Jane Eyre'), and Andrew Lloyd Webber's stage adaption (and rewrite) of Gaston Leroux's 'Phantom of the Opera' and a sequel, 'Love Never Dies.'
In the case of the latter, Lloyd Webber's narrative is arguably better known than the story it was based on.
Does this mean that, what essentially began as a form of fan fiction has now entered the literary/cultural 'cannon'? If so, at what point does this happen and how do we decide which 'fan fictions' become 'cannon'?
I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on the topic of fan fiction, particularly with regards to 'intertextuality' and Barthes' theories on 'The Death of the Author.'
I love the subject matter being explored here, and I think it would make a great article. Another random "fan fiction" of sorts that was adopted into the literary cannon would be John Gardner's Grendel from 1971 that built on the story of Beowulf from the antagonist's perspective. I hope someone picks this up! – Aaron5 years ago
The mind is a entity that knows no bounds. More often than not we see people through a third eye, imagining what they would do if they were faced by different circumstances. We need to live and let live, let people create their own worlds. – MsLinguista5 years ago
I gave up writing fan fiction years ago after three of my sub-plots for Star Trek Voyager mysteriously appeared in the next season. I wrote a novelette titled 'Thursday's Child' in which Ensign Kim assumed the (temporary) captaincy of Voyager and a member of the crew became pregnant, later giving birth to Voyager's first baby. Both ideas were roundly slammed by other fans, stating that they would never happen - but they did, in the very next season. A scene I wrote had Torres and Paris stuck on a desert planet, trying to survive long enough for Voyager to find them. A very similar scene, only set on a frozen planet, which even had very, very, similar dialogue between the two appeared in a later Voyager episode. Now I'm not accusing anyone of plagiarism (I can't afford the legal fees! LOL), but I began to wonder if the writers for Voyager (and other shows) occasionally scanned fan fiction for ideas they could use? Why not? It's cheaper than hiring a new writer. – Amyus5 years ago
The music for "Love Never Dies" is absolutely stunning, and was actual rather controversial around my circle. However, this example makes me wonder if a re-adaption counts as fanfiction in some cases or not. R.R Martin said about A Game of Thrones that the show could not do the same things the books could do, and so they were in essence their own thing. However, one's creative efforts in fanfiction can teach plot driving and story mechanics. It can build community. Although I am not a fanfiction writer, or common reader, I admire the community for its ability to come together. PBS' Storied actually did a Youtube video on a similar topic. It might have some more interesting ideas on the subject. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdDIMOehLm8
– ruegrey5 years ago
High school English curricula are filled with classics from centuries past. But, in a hypothetical high school curriculum that could ONLY include novels published in the twenty-first century, what would you choose? What considerations would need to be taken into account? What purpose would each text serve? Which genres are best/to be avoided? Is it possible to give a comprehensive education of literature without studying past texts? If so, why/why not?
Given the many schools of thought surrounding the Western canon and how folks determine if something's worth adding to said canon (especially if one considers how tastes, literary mechanisms/motifs, and worldviews evolve over time), I think this topic has the potential to become a comprehensive article that lists off the criteria for 21st-century sensibilities and examples of works fulfilling said criteria. – Michel Sabbagh4 years ago
When Suzanne Collins announced that her new book would follow President Snow, the antagonist of the original Hunger Game series, there was uproar from select fans who had no trouble expressing their distaste for a prequel story that followed this character.
However, there are books that follow villains or antagonists that people enjoy without fail – Game of Thrones has a huge cast of people that you wouldn't call 'good' necessarily, Vicious by V.E. Shwab protagonist is a 'villain'. Dexter and Breaking Bad were highly popular television series following characters that, in anyone else's story, would be the antagonist.
What is it about an antagonist, a villain, that encourages an audience to want to hear their story? What is about the antagonist that has audiences not wanting to hear their story?
I would argue its to do with how they became a villain themselves. Is it the world? Is it a privilege that has afforded them a certain belief system? Is it because the character is attractive?
Really interesting topic! I love v. e. schwab's "Villains" book. Victor is a fascinating antihero. I would say characters like Walter White fit into the antihero model as well. Remember that antagonist have specific story level specifications that they have to meet. Their role in a story is different than that of anti-hero. – Sean Gadus4 years ago
No character is evil for the sake of being evil. Everyone has their own motivations and reasoning, albeit sometimes flawed, behind the choices they make and the actions they take. Antagonists are often times more interesting than the altruistic heroes of most stories and it is due to this that makes them enticing to learn more about.
Explore character motivation. You'll find that each antagonist probably started out with good intentions and were the heroes of their own stories before something forces their hand. Think of Walter White, started out so that he could support his family and his power corrupted him. – FarPlanet4 years ago
Stephen King has built his career being the foremost prolific and successful horror storyteller of our generation. Or has he?
In his almost fifty years of publishing stories, he has a tendency to repeat the tales and tropes he finds interesting again and again because if there's one thing King is not afraid of, it's putting out his first draft while he hones in the story. "Here's my story about a murderous car. No, wait. Here is my story about a murderous car. Okay, hang on. This is my story about a murderous car."
Controversially, King's best work is when he branches away from the supernatural, the ghostly, and the otherworldly and steps into the realm of ordinary people in real situations. An author who after a car accident is taken in by a crazed fan only to be brutalized, a man wrongfully imprisoned for the murder of his wife succumbing to life behind bars but secretly plotting his escape, or an author is murdered and his killer stashes his unpublished works before being sent to prison but after his release goes in search of his hidden treasure only to find a child has stumbled upon his prize and the lengths he is prepared to go to get back what is his. All of these scenarios are horrifying, but in a wholly different way than utilizing some fantastical element like telekinesis or inter-dimensional monsters.
It is at the core of stories like these that we find real characters that we can relate and connect to and it is there that we find the heart and capability of Stephen King's true storytelling abilities.
